ABSOLUTELY NOT!

First, selling sex is illegal, none of us do that here.

However, if your speaking about escorts, whose time and compaionship is the service you desire to purchase, then gentlemanly ettiquette must prevail.

First, if you got upsold, bad on you, NOT the provider, in this day and age where you can easily find reviews and alerts of this practice, you should stick to reviewed ladies only.

Here's a link to help you improve your research skills...

(http://www.naughtyreviews.com/forum/hobbyist-hangout/how-to-reasearch-a-provider-vets-please-share-your-tricks-with-the-newbies)

WhYour suggestion is wrong on many levels...

1) Most of these ladies work alone, and thus they are often targeted by theives, scam artists, rapists and even worse.

Part of putting her at ease is the willingness that you show to put your donation right up front. Most ladies will not "take" it, but find it comforting to know her compensation is within visible sight.

2) Your comparing a lady intimate time to hamburgers and hair cuts.

a) Hambers and haircuts are legitimate business operations, with security cameras etc. Try to skip, and I guarantee, you'll not get away with it for long.

b) The "pay later" model is not absolutely true in all commerce, there are many times when you are required to pay up front. Consider, a visit to a theme park you pay up front first (oh, and with some parks, you have to pay extra to ride rides, and eat food = upsell). You pay up front before watching a movie (sheesh, thats only a $9.25 transaction!)
have you written letters to the theater using your hambergers and haircust arguement for them to change how they charge to AFTER you see the movie?

Note, experienced based services usually get paid upfront, themeparks, movies, skiing where as utilitarian services (ie haircuts, manicures, food) are billed at the end.

When you speak of "accountability", there is far more accountability for the ladies given the current review system, than there is for the gents - so if you want more accountability from the women, I suggest you concentrate on offering the ladies more accountability from yourself. Starting with helping your fellow hobbyist out by writing an honest review of your most recent upsell experience.

Just our 4 cents,

Absolutely not would have sufficed.

If he can't see the difference between hamburgers and being with an escort, well - don't think he will see your other points. BTW - one does pay for hamburgers prior to consuming at fast food places and grocery store, but I digress. Worse, now I am hungry - for which, I can not say at present.

Thanks Coyote - I am glad we see I-to-I.

As in "hungry" -- Is that for "food" or some other kind of "sustenance"?

lol!

Oh, the previous post was authored by Alex, but as always, approved by Christine too.

Peace - Alex

personally i dont usually pay up front either unless asked.
there have actually been times when i decided the better part of valor was to give some lame excuse and leave at that point.

your in control of your wallet if you dont like the situation dont stay.

after all until the session starts you can opt out at anytime. if you pay then get upsold make sure to review the scam queen and if your involved in the back channels make sure they know too. the only way to make upselling stop is to make it financially untenable for it to continue.

Alex here,

Agreed, and just as you defend the rights of your wallet, I hope you respect the rights of the lady since she is in control of her time and her body. If *SHE* isn't comfortable with the situation (meaning "YOU"), she can opt-out at anytime, for any reason. (With a suitable arrangement for her time spent thus far).

I hear what your getting at, to a degree I understand (and agree a little) but, I also see a place in the hobby where the hobbyists should expect an upsell. I can't help but wonder, what if "upselling" were more transparent (assume there were a way to take the sting out of the surprise).

I honestly think upselling has a reasonable "place" in the hobby. Many gents are extremely budget sensitive, so I can envision scenarios where the upsell provider caters to those who are more budget concious.

Now, I'm not advocating for it, and Christine & I never upsell, but, look at all these $70/hr CL girls, c'mon, do you really believe that is all inclusive??? Just as with AMP and strippers, upselling is part of the game.

If a provider chooses this as her business model, (I'll be confused why anyone would), but, if there were a way to be "slightly" more transparent about her expectations, it might make good business sense (for her and for her clients who understand this). All I am saying, is I can envision a plausible application in select situations.

PEACE - ALEX

I have stated here that if I wish to see a lady and the only way I will get to see her is if we meet in public, that renumeration is in order for such time spent. I agree the lady should be able to opt out of an encounter, but no way do I think she should be monetarily compensated for any time spent in that circumstance. Sheesh, that has such potential for abuse that it scares me.

As for the upselling, this is the very reason I would not recco a CL lady. You go to an AMP, if goes with the territory. But if you go to an upscale escort, typically one is seekig a GFE or courtesan encounter and upselling is just not conducive to that experience, IMO.

And Moebius, not sure I read that right - you don't leave the envelope out at the start of the session? Personally, I can understand wanting to be able to walk if necessary, but it would never occur to me to leave this to the end of a session as I think this "could" be a prohibiting factor for a good encounter.

it depends i guess if they ask for the cash as soon as im in the door then ill usually give the i left the wallet in the car excuse and bounce. if they dont then i put it on the dresser.
if i think they are more interested in getting my cash then in me im usually going to leave and save myself the bother.
i

Alex ... LOL @Moebius.

So, you want the illusion that the lady is more interested in you than your dough, but, plain and simple, they are there for the dough, not you, cuz if it were actually the other way around, the transaction would be totally unecessary. Whatever helps ya sleep bud.

This very diluded perception of reality may be the reason why some guys do not call us, because we do not mince business and pleasure, we are very clear about our terms, our fees and what we expect, when and where. Many guys struggle with the cold calculated business of it, but, for those who get it out of the way, they end up putting us at such ease, that according to our reviews - most forget we were providing a "service".

For me, rather than pussy-foot around with illusions, we like the more straight forward honest approach, and then lets all have some fun!

Guys... if you are like Moebius, see who he has written reviews for and see these girls, obviously, they are comfortable with that arrangement.

But, not everyone is like him, and it is my bet that if you follow my advice given, you'll get far more action and much higher praise in your references. Believe me, much more is asked of the references you provide than you realize.

PEACE - ALEX

heh with your attitude im sure they say they forget publicly, after all no sense burning bridges.

most reviews in private are rarely as flattering in general however.

as for why shes there im not a child after all i know exactly what shes there for and its not my conversation.
conversely she should understand exactly what i am paying for and its not her scintillating personality or rapier wit.

when service suffers even before service is rendered then it behooves me to take my business elsewhere and help my brother hobbyists avoid the hassle.

I used to receive my donation afterwards until I got ripped off and now it is beforehand I just ask them to place it on the counter.

I think the protocol is to pay before unless we are talking about AMPs in which case you pay the door fee and then tip depending on what the service is like...I prefer that model. I'm always happy to pay upfront but like Moebius I'm always happy to leave if I get the feeling that I'm not going to have a good time.

So in one thread you're against reviews and in another you say its a hobbyist's fault for not seeing reviewed girls if he's upsold.

I have never stated that.

Anywhere.

I am an advocate of reviews, and urge them to be what I call "gentlemanly" in nature, meaning absent the nitty-gritty alphabet soup (and often exaggerated blow-by-blow account) that LE is now using against both hobbyists and providers.

My position is for BOTH our mutual safety, no other motive than that.

If you've come to some conclusion that I am somehow "against" reviews, then I suggest a careful re-read as that was not my intent.

Heck, even we use the reviews of references given so we might better understand the particular interests of our special friends, so, I am afraid your mistaken.

PEACE - ALEX

Alex - just for clarification of your position....you are in favor of reviews if they are written in a manner consistent with what you deem safe, - which is void of explicit details and alphabet acronyms. I further understand your position to be about potential LE using said information against either or both hobbyist and provider. Do I understand correctly?

Not a biggie, but I also take umbrage at your statement, "This very diluded perception of reality may be the reason why some guys do not call us, because we do not mince business and pleasure" I choose not to see tandem providers because I am not comfortable with the arrangement. Moreso, I think that hobbying is a business of pleasure.

To Moebius - thank you for the clarification. I understand that if the first words out of the ladies mouth are "where's the envelope" the session is most likely going to go downhill from there. I have never had that happen to me so I honestly do not know how I would react. My comfort zone is to leave the envelope when I enter, but I understand that is not for everyone. Bear in mind that I rarely TOFTT and almost always have the benefit of phone or email correspondence.

I got ripped off once.

One time in several years is not a problem for me.

It taught me some good lessons, and it could have been easily avoided if I hadn't made several mistakes before the appointment.

I don't want the money up front, I'm very happy to get it later.

Actually I don't even want any money if the client isn't happy with what they get.

In rare cases someone has the totally wrong idea. I always offer them to leave instead of staying for the rest of the time, and honestly, I wouldn't care whether they pay at that point or not. I want people to be very happy with what I do.

When I get the money after the session I often get some extra... while they are fishing around in their wallet, all happy, relaxed and amazed at what a great experience they had, they like to add a few bills.

To be perfectly honest, I think it's tacky to ask for the money up front if it's just a one-hour session.

You're going to be lynched for your refreshing and logical opinion.

if lucia were in AZ i would see her limited menu and all

when i travel out of state or work alone i state politely id like them to lie the donation on the stand when they come in.

In the Midwest im not worried about being ripped off.
However in the south defiantly!

i remember my first outcall in atlanta.
i showed started to set up my table .The man said are u going to take ur clothes off now?
I said excuse me my ad was in the therapeutic section not erotic?No where did it say nude.He said ive never had a non nude massage.
I replied well you have 2 options this can be your first or ill gladley leave.

He enjoyed my massage but expected way to much for 150!
atlanta neuromuscualr therapist charge 150 -200 hr therapeutic thats my standard therapeutic OC fee...
HE HAD TO GO TO THE ATM TO GET THE OTHER 50 HE OWED ME.

so it depends on how i feel about the client if i feel something odd id like it up front if not the end is fine

Hey, Alex here...

@Coyote, Your understanding regarding my position on reviews is accurate.

As for my comment, I'll admit that I was being a little harsh. I get rather agitated when I read statements that come across single-sided, mysogynistic, or absent any warmth of empathy for the provider position (generally speaking).

With regards to the timing of the transaction, your right, this is a "business of pleasure" and I do not mean to imply that the first words out of OUR mouth is "where's the envelope", but anyone who has experienced us and our "model" can tell you that while we are somewhat ridgid as to our expectations, we are people who deeply understand the psychy (sp) of our clientele (whom we actually refer to as "friends" - not "customers") and for us, we appreciate friends who can be comfortable taking care of the "business" as early into our encounter as possible.

We have a threshold of comfort that lacking sight of an envelope, we are not willing to continue onward, I can't say exactly where this threshold is, as it can vacilate some based on a series of variables & conditions, but be assured, it's not the first thing out of our mouth.

A testament to this fact is when we tour. Currently we are in LA, and all our advertising prior stated that we required a deposit to hold an reservation for a date - or payment in full for a small discount. 3/5th of our dates not only booked in advance, but also payed in full. 1/5th payed the deposit in advance. We are in our 2nd day of a 5 day tour, and our phone is ringing off the hook with people who want to see us with little more than a few hours notice. (Which we can't do with the exception of 2 openings, but frankly, we're planning on just taking those times off).

Interestingly, those who payed in-full have all commented on how much they loved that we offered them the ability to do so as it eliminated the "feel" of a transaction, and our entire time and focus was spent on enjoying each others company.

I realize what Christine and I offer is something that is very unique, special and different and we appeal to a very select niche market. Our experience may not apply to the solo lady segment of this business, but I think there are some very interesting principals at work here.

However, I do advise NEW hobbyists lurking about to first do their research, read reviews, PM the review writers and get very comfortable with his chosen ladies screening requirements. Then, once on their date, he should get the "transaction" portion out of the way ASAP. Now, if he has done the pre-requisite tasks mentioned here-in, odds are very good he will experience a very good, pleasure filled, exciting session with his chosen provider.

Respectfully, I am not a fan of people who appear to me as preaching or boasting that his is the only, the smartest or the best method - especially - if in any way, those techniques minimize the safety, security or value of a lady.

Just our 4 cents,

PEACE - ALEX

My opinion on Comparing escorts and massagers to a fast food joint:
Metaphorically speaking
I think of myself as an elite night club everyone needs to come to visit at least once.
I have a cover charge thats left at the counter for 50% refund if your'e not happy,
if you want drinks and dessert that's complimentary .
Best time to stop by is ladies night ;p