because its been around for years, i personally hate it since it encourages double booking and flakery however the ladies all love it so were pretty much stuck with it.

however the best defense is a good offense if your ever hosed by two call make sure as hell you post it everywhere you have an account. the only way we stop the crap is to make it financially detrimental to continue the behavior.

Some of us have locked outside doors to our incall so you have to call and say you're
Here .
I sure don't want my client wandering around lost.

When I see someone the second time they usually know what carport to park in and what door to knock on.

No phonecalls needed.

But for new clients: why should I give a total stranger my address? Nuh - uh.

Fair enough Lucia but isn't he still a total stranger on the second call?

Great question JJ. For the lady that tells me she wants to greet me in some "sexy" or provocative attire, I can sorta buy the 2 call. I wouldn't want to run around an apartment or hotel room dressed in some skimpy thing only to answer the door to Mormons or housecleaning (okay, I'm sick enough that I guess I would ) but for the majority, I'm sorry but I just don't see the so-called added protection the 2-call offers.

All that said, it has not been a problem for me thus far.

I think Moebius pretty much nailed it when he said its a way for providers to double book. First come first served.

I NEVER give anybody my address. I tell them to go to XYZ address where I know they can easily park in a big lot and call me.
Then, with them on the phone, I direct them around the corner to meet me. It's easy, just takes 30 seconds, I stay on the phone with them and meet them in the street and show them where to park.

That way I can verify they are by themselves, they look like who I expected, and most of all they can't call the swat team with the address without me noticing.

I make sure I'm supernice and sweet, apologize for the procedure, tell them how glad I am to finally meet them and in general greet them like old friends with a hug.

Since I never have more than 2 new clients in a week it isn't weird for the neighbors either.

Lucia, your system works for you - great. It is no one's place to tell you that you need to change anything (myself included.) I would be interested in your comments on the following - you meet the client outside of your incall adn then direct or accompany him to your incall, at least that is what I understood. But, if the guy is LE and part of a sting, odds are that his buddies have already arrived and are watching you meet him.

I am guessing you don't have a lot of experience calling or contacting a provider for a date. At least you have a reason for the 2-call. Many hobbyists go through a multiple call system only to be directed to the door in the end, sight unseen. If it makes the lady more comfortable or there is clearly a precautionary system in place, okay - but setting up a system of multiple calls for calling sake is just silly. And, unfortunately it has been my observation that most providers fall into this category (naturally, there are exceptions.)

BTW - we all have a temper, but I sure hope yours would not necessitate calling in "SWAT", at least not in the acronym sense. Now in the literal sense, hmmm

yep, lucia seems to have a reasonable 2 call procedure but as you say coyote, the majority do not come outside and meet you. You call them from nearby and they give you the address. I can't even count the number of times that I've called a provider and she's said, "sure honey, just call me when you get to X, and I'll give you the address". Most of the times they don't even ask what time leading me to believe that they just say the same thing to all of their clients and wait to see which one shows up....just as moebius and Hung said earlier.

I hope I haven't given the impression that I disagree with Moebius and HW on this. For the majority of ladies using a multiple call system, I think their comments are spot on the mark.

What really sucks, IMO, is that there are legitimate reasons for multiple calls, but providers rarely offer these as explanations leading hobbyists to assume they are in for someone that double books or operating on a first come, first served mentality.

For the ladies - reasons that would shut us up or at least put us in a more understanding frame of mind, -

"I want our encounter to be non-rushed and this is the best way for me to make sure you don't get lost."

"Don't know about you, but I hate it when I don't know the area and my GPS tells me to turn too late. I want you to be happy when you arrive, not frustrated."

"I'll meet you at X, to ensure we both have a comfort level before we get behind closed doors."

"I like to make sure everything is prepared for you and some things need to be set up just before you come in, ie - music, candles, my wardrobe, etc."

I am sure there are a lot more reasons, but it is all about the presentation. Just to say, this is how I do it and it is for my safety/comfort level with nothing to indicate how a multiple call system supports that position, well, it is just insulting, at least to me (IMHO).

i dont mind gals have explained why they do this they dont want people showing up as they want to. they prefer appointments and cuts out the b/s

We use 2 call, to make sure there is adequate comfort on both sides before proceeding.

Just as you guys complain about double booking, many ladies have suffered at the hands of gents who double book and NC/NS on the other lady, for some ladies, this can be financially crippling.

How is a lady supposed to curtail this unacceptable behavior?

How is she supposed to protect her business, and retain the value for her time?

A 2 call system, and frankly for some, double booking to make up for lost ground.

Now, we do not condone double booking, but we have been burned by the NC/NS (even with a 2 call system) far too many times, our defense is not only the 2 call system, but also requiring a deposit (for which we offer a small discount).

Gents, I realize many things a lady asks of you are annoying at best, but please realize, just as these techiques are exploited by scammers, so also they exist as a course of protection or defense to a common problem experienced by legit providers.

It is up to you, as a community, to help each other detect and avoid unsavory practacies such as B&S, NC/NS, etc.

Just our 4 cents,

"Value for her time." “Make up for lost ground.” Thank you Christine for bringing an aire of honesty to this discussion. However, value is a matter of perception. Your perceived value for your time is not necessarily our perceived value for your services. Let’s be frank – the supply in this market is fairly proportionate to the demand. Unless you are offering something rare during your sessions, how different is the service you are providing in the eyes of your client compared to someone who does not hold their time so highly valued? As with all things, there are grades in value. And at some point, every provider has to grade her value. So at what point does a lady determine whether her services warrant a double booking strategy to maximize her potential value? Asked more colloquially, when is your voodoo so whodoo that weedoo what youdoo? BTW, I can't imagine ever putting down a deposit - that must be some high grade voodoo.

the double booking by the providers is what leads to double booking by the clients. Our time is valuable after all and a guy taking steps to make sure he isnt disappointed by some flaky provider is fairly reasonable behavior.

i wouldn't pay a deposit either thats just silly, no session is worth that much hassle.

I agree with you and DH, no way would I even dream of paying a deposit. 9 times out of 10 its a scam and you have no guarantees that you'll even see the provider. In Flirty's case, its quite apparent that they offer a legit service so I might make an exception there.

@Sinsational

Thank you. We are a much more rare gem, and we cater to a very specialized niche. The market dynamics have shown that in our case, we can and do get some very EXCEPTIONAL treatment that would not apply across the board to the more abundant & plentiful GFE "provider". Those who don't like what we offer - no harm no foul, we already know we are not here to appeal to everyone, but a very select, discerning type of gent who seeks what we have to offer

@Dirty Harry

I agree, market dynamics do often come into play when establishing ones pricing. We are simply offering one plausibe sense of reasoning why the 2-call evolves into double booking (and as we said, a practice we ferociously discourage).

I did not mean to point a finger as if to accuse all gents of NC/NS and as the source of the problem, and not all ladies doing so are double booking - these "generalities" do nothing to advance the hobby in a healthy fashion.

Instead, I am suggesting, that communicating with your ATF providers about a new provider, (in addition to your research) may help you become understanding and comfortable with the unique process of your NEW chosen provider. Many ladies will be of no help, but in communities like Phoenix, you'd be surprised how much help some of us could actually be

Just our 4 cents.

Just for fair balance - I completely agree with FC's statement. Crap, thunderstorms are going to ruin my weekend now

IMHO, as Moebius alluded - double booking, other "business practices" and bad hobbyists create a vicious catch-22 for everybody. Shame that these exceptions create problems for the rest of us, but I guess that goes with the illicit nature of the hobby. Makes me wonder what the general concensus of good and bad clients/providers are- but I'll have to start anouther thread for that

I am thinking it depends on what you call the two call system. I have called and gotten in to meet them in a hour and they say call when in the parking lot. 2call or there is the type where you make plans for later that night or the next day then i can see where the double booking could happen i guess i am lucky so far it has not happened to me yet.

This is typically what is meant by 2 call. The issue arises when hobbyists are in the parking lot or nearing the location and make the call only to have it go unaswered or meeting declined at that point. Imagine driving across town, sometimes rushing for fear of being late and dipping into your time - only to end up alone in your car. That is the hobbyist side of the frustration (and I am being nice about the hobbyist reaction.)

A two call is the only way for a high volume provider to do business and it can help both hobbyist and provider to avoid embarrassing situations (ie) you knock on door and last customer is still there.

highroller if they are overlapping appts that closely then two call isnt the problem its the provider herself.

If the appts are that close - no way for her to clean up between guys. Yuck!

Note, @HighRollers observation is for "high volume" providers, now I think we had this discussion once before as what high volume means. Typically, the lower a gals rates, the higher her volume needs to be (and the probability she will double book - accidentally or on purpose).

@Coyote, as for the "clean-up" for some guys its not a problem, and depending on the activities your most interested, could be even less a problem.

Now, for some insight into a providers world....

For some ladies, when times are a little slow, 2 appointments in a day can come at a much needed time. (In our case, we are limited to a MAX of 2 appointments per day given the uniqueness of the experience we provide).

The first date gets set for say 3pm, for an hour, incall. (In our case, it would be 90 minutes plus a some leisurely social time).

Then, second date emails and asks for 3:30pm for 2 hours, also incall. The gent is an out-of-town visitor on a limited schedule. After some "jawing" you both manage to agree on 4:30pm but due to his limited schedule, can now only spend 90 minutes (damn!).

On the surface (and in a perfect world), this gives our fictitious provider 30 minutes to "clean up".

While many ladies might NEVER be comfortable with only 30 minutes between appointments, it can be done especially in light of have having less time with date #2, so we are "motivated" to do our best with the way the cards fell for that day.

In our case, when on tour, this situation as described above does tend to arise, we inform date #2 that we do have a prior engagement - thus the reason for pushing his time back to 4:30 in the first place. But, in the planning process, both sides are trying to be accomodating. Further, we may also advise date #1 ahead of time and see if we can meet him earlier, but often is the case, you guys have some pretty tight schedules, we understand that.

On the day of the date, gentleman #1 calls at 2:45pm, and says he is runnin a little late (and gives a reasonable excuse related to traffic) he will make the first call when he arrives at the designated location. In the meantime, the lady attempts to contact gent #2, she realizes all she has is his email, so she sends a quick email, just asking for a little "tolerance".

However, gent #2 is now checked out, packed his computer and does not have email access on his phone - This Really Happens Guys!!!

Finally, date #1 arrives and is actually 15 minutes late, session ends at 4:10 as our fictitious provider has obviously had to inform gent #1 of her tight time schedule, he is a little annoyed that she had to "watch the clock" and he doesn't get the full hour he feels he had the right to as his tardiness was not "entirely" his fault or responsibility

Our lady still has 20 minutes, and might pull this off yet. She jumps into the shower, and as she does the phone rings.

She chooses to let the call roll to voicmail. It was Gent #2 calling and guess what.... HE IS EARLY! and at his designated meeting location. His early arrival was in hopes that her prior session ended a little earlier. Which also happens, so many of you guys never realize how things can sometimes also work out for all involved.

Now, Gent #2 is waiting for a call back, every second he waits from this moment, his anxiety builds along with his fear that she may not respond, and he never saw her email about running a little late. Guys, admit it, in this case, the frustration begins a full 15 minutes sooner than it should, BUT IT DOES.

Regardless of how it all ends, I am just illustrating a plausible and somewhat "common" scenario (despite attempts on both sides to avoid potential frustrations) - regardless of a providers volume, rates, etc.

Just our 4 cents.

Your scenario is all well and good FC. But from what I have been told and read - the scenario that all too frequently is referenced, occurs when the provider either books overlapping appointments or within 30 minutes of each other.

Based on your model, I can understand why this might be hard to fathom. But apparently it happens. In this event, it seems to the average hobbyist that the provider in question is operating on a first come, first served basis. It gets compounded because , as you mentioned, gents show early, gents overstay their time, etc. Any lady bookig that closely together is just asking for a bad rep since sh-t happens and the smallest deviation results in someone being unhappy.

It may be unfair, but this is part of the average hobbyist's concern when encountering a multiple call system.

Once I seen someone maybe 3 or 4 times they may make it a one call. Or a call and a text.

ive run into more overlapping and out right double booking from two call system users than any other. Theres a reason I assume this is going to be a pain in the ass as soon as I hear "call me when you get to so and so" and that reason is bitter experience.

hell its gotten to the point when i hear two call i check to see if any AMPS are also in the area so i can go to a backup without a lot of bs.

Agreed. Fortunately, I have never had to avail myself of those AMPs...yet. For me, I'm the rare bird that does not keep a backup alternative in terms of another lady -but now the alternative of an AMP....guilty as charged.

I am surprised you have run into more double booking and overlaps than not. I simply can't believe the reason would be geographically related. Perhaps my prowess is so legendary that upon hearing my handle - the ladies are cancelling the rest of their day just for the pleasure of my company Yep, that must be it. Right? Hello?

We have discussed this before - you do have significantly more notches on the proverbial bedpost than I so in all seriousness, I defer to you in this instance.

I can't say I have a backup because it had never really occurred to me. With the number of times I've been screwed around and wound up driving around looking for some action I'm surprised I'd never thought about it. I guess I'll start keeping an AMP in my back pocket so to speak.

well i tend to toftt about twice a month. i have four ladies i see alot, i also tend to get in that mood at weird times then i go trolling in backpage and craigs. lately ive been batting about .600 for wasted time to sessions that actually happened.

there are alot of creeps out there who just want our address. ... you have no idea how many people would like to find out where we are. ..... clients are not the issue...in general they are just looking for fun...... it's all the people who pretend to be clients in order to get information.

i dont want dude to have my exact address unless i know he's serious enough about the appointment to actually drive to it. if he does this, then there's an excellent chance he's a real client.

my terrier will bark when a new client is 1-2 miles away. ...repeat clients she will bark when they are as far as 5 miles away.

repeat clients dont have to do the 2 call.

my terrier busted a dude just this week who was pretending like he had driven to the spot i told him to...she was not barking when he called so i knew he wasn't there and he kept insisting he was... no he wasn't.... later he admitted he was at the bank and got cold feet.

whatever, creep, there's no bank over there either.